Sunday, November 9, 2008

Kiss my shoe loving, science loving, hip hop dancing loving brown ass. Or Fuck You

Considering I've called out CPP for name-calling during a discussion, I will say up front that I totally know I am being hypocritical and not following my personal mantra of always being respectful during disagreements. Sometimes I am just too angry.

Renee who left a rather racist and full of shit comment on Dr.Isis recent post talking about rising above name calling. I fully agree with Isis on the not resorting to demeaning name calling so despite originally referring to Renee with some denigrating epithets, I have erased them. I however stand by what I said in my comment. FUCK YOU. I guess I have calmed down, or maybe not.

Renee - I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but you come across as hating women because you do. You also appear to very prejudiced against other groups for rather stupid and ignorant reasons. For anyone who thinks the following statement is not indicative of racism is wrong.

I don't like most black people not because of their skin color, but because I don't like hip-hop and dancing. I don't like most women because I don't like shopping and romantic comedies. I do have female and black friends, however, because they don't belong to those cultures; they belong to my culture, which involves sci-fi, anime, and board games.

Lets deconstruct that statement:
"I don't like most black people not for the color of their skin" - do I really need to explain how not liking a whole group of people based on the color of their skin is um racist. Yah, Yah I know she is saying that is not true, but yet she she is grouping them by their skin color. Based on their skin color, she is assuming they enjoy hip hop and dancing and then using that as the reason she doesn't like them. First its not that she is not friends or doesn't associate with them. She dislikes them. So Renee do you like white people that enjoy hip hop and dancing or is it just the black people who like hip hop and dancing? Why not say I do not like people who enjoy hip hop and dancing? Would that not be the more accurate statement if you weren't first catagorizing on race first?

And how about that assumption that most black people like hip hop and dancing? I agree that that hip hop is heavily intertwined with black culture but that does not automatically mean that all or even most black people enjoy hip hop over and above other musical forms (Lenny Kravitz people, Lenny Kravitz! (not to menion many many others)). Many many black people actually strongly disagree with large aspects of hip hop and some of the messages encompassed within the hip hop culture and are actively involved in opposing it. The assumption you made is akin to assumming that if you're catholic you automatically hate gays and are pro-life. If you're not racist then you're either naive, ignorant or stupid.

How about that last part of your statment "I do have female and black friends...they don't belong to that culture...they belong to my culture" - again why is "your culture" of sci-fi, anime and video games exclusive from hip hop or black culture? - (Note that I separated black and hip hop culture, because although intertwined, they are separate). You are assuming that black people as a whole do not enjoy any of those things. Why can sci-fi, anime and/or video games not belong to that culture?

Lastly, the derogartory tone (again racist / prejudical undertones) with which you refer to those cultures that you hate is rather alarming. Hate is a pretty strong word. You are hating someone for the type of clothes they wear or the music they listen to? You actually judge the seriousness of someone based on whether they like shoes??? You have issues. As I write this post, I am wondering why I have let someone as narrow-minded and idiotic as you keep me up and get me so riled.

Because it people like you, that are in positions of power, who when I walk through a door decide I am a not smart / capable based first on the color of my skin, second on sex and then how I am dressed. And I have not said a word or done a task.

It is because of people like you that Barack Obama did not win by a greater margin.


Juniper Shoemaker said...

ScientistMother, you rock. And I fucking hate commenters like Renee. They poison the fucking blogosphere. Thank you for royally calling her on the carpet the way I wanted to but didn't because my own blog posts are overdue (and the rest of you real scientists were doing such a good job anyway).

Dr. Isis is one of those rare people who radically and constructively disobey stereotypes without trying too hard. I love her unaffected, wholehearted, searingly intelligent writing. I deeply enjoy having a hot, funny, brilliant woman scientist like Isis to look up to-- even when I don't agree with her. And I enjoy that her blog attracts other women scientists who are confident in both their unusual intelligence and their beauty, in both their career and their wardrobe/cookery/awesome baby-raising/hip-hop dancing/ whatever . . .misguided commenters like Renee have decided to identify as hallmarks of x inferior "culture" in their humorlessness, lack of imagination and semiconscious attempts to bolster their failing egos. Even with the tagalong nasties, all you ladies make me want to be a better person, and you make the world seem brighter to me.

Incidentally, Renee's gratuitous crack at "black culture"-- don't we brown people just love "befriending" obviously non-brown people who just can't help otherizing us? Gawd, where do all these people keep coming from?-- was a bonus. I can't dance to save my life. I really wish I could, but I can't. Don't think my dad can, either. We both like sci-fi, though. . .hahahahahaha.

I'm unfortunately thin-skinned and I let people get to me all the time-- probably more so than you. But if you aren't in bed already, I hope you get some sleep now!

Mimi said...

Here here, ScientistMother. I cannot believe people are that narrow minded. I love dancing and hip-hop, but I am also an anime junkie and science geek. I am also Latina. My ethnicity and/or color does not determine what or who I like and don't like. I am glad you called out this person. The fact that they have to refer to there friends as "blacks" and "women" hardly speaks well of their character and inability to see beyond outward appearances. I am going to stop typing before this turns into a spiteful diatribe.

Mr. said...

Thank you for fielding that ignorance, ScientistMother. I almost had a fit when I read Renee's comment. Had to read it three times to make sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing. I could not bring myself to address it in the manner it deserved.

Ambivalent Academic said...

Thanks for writing that. I tried to compose my own response but it sounded too angry to be coming from a rational intelligent woman. You said it just right. The right degree of indignation and a rational argument regarding Renee's hateful remarks. Well done - we are lucky to have such well-spoken woman out here in the blogs.

Amanda said...

I haven't read the post yet (but I will). However, I just wanted to chime in and tell you that I think your post is very constructive. While it's clear that you are angry, you took apart Renee's argument effectively and efficiently. Also, I found it to be respectful (it's obvious that you are upset, but you make a legitimate and thoughtful argument against Renee's comment) and you didn't resort to name calling (at least not too much).

Plus, I enjoy seeing an intelligent person point out the flaws in a narrow-minded (amongst other things) person's argument. (You rock, by the way.)

Anonymous said...

Well said. Being a black, feminine, kick-ass scientist with a wealth of diverse interests, reading Renee's comment made me see red. I was all ready to call bullshit on her, but I'm glad you got there before me and said it so well. Unfortunately what was displayed was a level of ignorance I have encountered time and time again.

Cath@VWXYNot? said...

Great post! I couldn't believe that comment, it was unbelievably ignorant.

(From a white chick who loves (good) hip hop and board games and romantic comedies and shopping and sci-fi, but hates dancing and doesn't really get anime and likes square-toed boots more than pointy shoes)

Peggy said...

Very well said. Renee's comment annoyed me so much I couldn't think of a good way of addressing it directly and constructively.

Dr. A said...

sciencemum rocks the party.

seeree, phd (jan 09) said...

ScientistMother, I agree with you completely, and would like to add one small little detail.
Can you just imagine if Renee stopped gaping at anime, sci-fi, and board games? the culture that is out there is amazing! enrich yourself with it! if you cannot enjoy it, at least recognize that nothing is wrong with people who do enjoy it. otherwise i would think there is something wrong with the people who actually enjoy sci-fi, anime, and board games?
ScientistMother, I clicked on your blog through Dr. Isis's blog, and am totally glad I did. :)

ScientistMother said...

Thank you everyone for you comments. Welcome to some of you that I haven't seen here before, Juniper, Peggy, Mr., Ambivalent Academic. I look forward to participating in more conversations with you and will be visiting you shortly, (I have to read some darn science first:))